FW: More on Vesta Data

From: Andrew Johnson

Date: 2011-08-04 11:02:19

Attachments : A friend has been looking in to the reaction to the Vesta data – he’s picked some interesting points/comments etc from quite a number of articles…. From: Sent: 03 August 2011 21:00To: Andrew JohnsonSubject: The Universe consistently refuses to read our science textbooks . . . Hi Andrew,I said I would try to find out where the quotes ref Vesta came from and look into the “no raw data thing”, so I listened to the NASA press conference and jotted down a few things in order to get the flavour of it.I suppose in review the things that stand out are:Once again planetary science is very surprised by finding stuff they didn’t expect. So much for their predictive modelling!andNo good reason given for censoring the data. I mean – one “selected” picture from the 1000’s they will get every day. Really??I’ll continue looking at the lack of raw data thing but I fear no easy way, if any, to get a straight answer . . .There are some good articles linked below, but the following is probably too long and jumbled so don’t feel the need to read it all 😉
A selection of phrases from AP article
www.abc12.com/story/… stunned by surface of asteroid VestaBy ALICIA CHANGAP Science WriterRunning along the asteroid’s equator are deep grooves – a surprise to scientists who did not expect to see such features.

“We’re seeing quite a varied surface,” said chief scientist Christopher Russell of the University of California,Since entering orbit, Dawn has taken more than 500 pictures, while refining its path and inching ever closer to the surface to get a better view. The probe will officially start collecting science data next week once it is 1,700 miles from the surface. It will get as close as 110 miles while it orbits Vesta for a year.Vesta’s southern section is dominated by a giant crater, the result of a collision eons ago.The northern side is filled with older craters including three that scientists dubbed “Snowman.”The team does not plan to post raw images online as other NASA missions have done. Instead, there will be just one picture released daily.__________________________________________________________________________________________________
Here’s a link to the 58 minute NASA press conference on August 1st
www.youtube.com/watc…or miss out the initial unrelated blurb and go straight to Dawn materialThe Universe consistently refuses to read our science textbooks . . .”www.youtube.com/watc…Chris Russel quotes taken from the video (and he answered nearly all the questions below too)Craters have features in them we did not expect

As mission progresses we will be taking data at higher and higher resolution

Photos already a great revelation . .did not imagine the detail we’re seeing and the various processes that we’re seeing evidence of now
A selection of questions and answers from the end of the video ( they start at 32:35)——————————————————————————————————————————————————————John Brooks KNX News radioHow Old is Vesta?Stock gravity coalescence answer with a super nova adding radiation to add heat . . .Article here includes radio show to report exactly what he was told . . . gasp!——————————————————————————————————————————————————————Emily Lakdawalla Planetary Society 34:47 and 53:18Shape of Vesta compared with Hubble and dark spot?Some fresh craters is that surprising.We see dark material that we never expected (his emphasis) What is causing those craters with the black streaks going down them? I haven’t seen anything like that before . . .2nd answer regards fresh craters:No, because its going on all the time (then appears to contradict by saying the science team are constantly commenting on the freshness of the craters)Her article is here:On speculation in today’s Dawn press finishes with this section on what I have referred to in my last email as “The Cogwheel””Sorry this isn’t a substantive post about the Dawn pics. Hopefully I’ll get to that later today, or tomorrow. One teaser pic below is of a phenomenon on Vesta that struck Russell as so strange that he didn’t have any hypotheses to offer. It’s also fun when scientists say “I don’t know.””Vesta bears mysterious fresh-looking craters with very dark streaks running down their sides, as in this image taken even before Dawn reached its survey orbit. Credit: NASA / JPL-Caltech / UCLA / MPS / DLR / IDA And here is her second article. Well worth readingwww.planetary.org/bl… Lee Holts? 36:40 and 47:00Explain the grooves?Timeline for coming monthsans: Vesta concertina’d then re-expanded after huge impact at south pole!Late September for low altitude camera photosCouldn’t find an article referring to the questions on the WSJ siteRobert Lee Hotz is the science and cosmology guy at WSJ but no article found as at 3rd Aug——————————————————————————————————————————————————————Dan Vergano 38:24USA todayUse the deep southern crater to look inside Vesta?Use crater counts to date or age Vesta? Same for asteroid belt as for inner planets? ans: also refers to a guy not at the press conference, MIT astronomer Richard Binzel.The grooves on Vesta resemble compression marks, “like the crumple zone in a car,” Binzel says, from the impact that left behind the massive southern crater. “It is like the moon, only battered.” ——————————————————————————————————————————————————————space.com 39:55 Denise Chowmost surprising thing?Grooves . .really neat .. puzzled us . . something we didn’t expect
Black and white debris in craters not something I’m familiar with.
Sometimes smaller asteroids are pretty uniform [Vesta] not a uniform bodySurprises, some things that don’t fit in with our understanding, our preconceived ideas
www.space.com/12524-… article says the Snowman may be the oddest feature and makes no mention of the questions she asked or the answers she gotscore 1 out of 10 from me . . .——————————————————————————————————————————————————————Irish TV Leo Enright 41:59Clarify what is the snowman crater and what was the reaction to dramatic multi spectra imagesimages were vivid in differentiation and there were gasps at spectra imagesSnowman craters huge but shallow and filled with debris with landslides showingCan’t find an article as at 3rd AugLeo Enright is a former Head of Radio News with RTE… He continues to broadcast regularly on BBC radio and television and on RTE.Leo Enright has broadcast live commentaries on every major space event since the first Moon landing——————————————————————————————————————————————————————Dr Ken Kremer Spaceflight magazine 49:46Anything like the south pole and gigantic central peak in the solar system?Any other object/analogues like this in the solar system?It is unique in many many features – an almost body shattering event and the grooves support huge impact . . .No good analogue anywhere else (regarding huge peak in crater)Article is at Universe today ( maybe Spaceflight magazine will publish next month?)http://www.universetoday.com/87783/nasa-unveils-thrilling-first-full-frame-images-of-vesta-from-dawn/Mentions uniqueness of Vesta in article. Question not wasted then ;)——————————————————————————————————————————————————————Alicia Chang 53:56APRaw images??

Plan to have image of the day and select and release 1 image a day from the 1000’s they get
Don’t want to inundate us with data and keep things fresh. (this crappy answer wasn’t picked up on sadly)
See also article at top of Montage of images at the end starts at 55:24 From: Sent: 04 August 2011 01:06To: Andrew JohnsonSubject: small snippet on vista data Plenty of people are not happy with the low rate of data disclosure and not just us tinfoil brigade.Even the mainstream are fed up.From this bold is by Emily Lakdawalla of the Planetary Society, whose post I recommended as a good read in the last email QUOTE (PDP8E @ Aug 2 2011, 05:26 AM) the last line has a 20th century kinda of feel to it:….The team does not plan to post raw images online as other NASA missions have done. Instead, there will be just one picture released daily ….I was very happy when Alicia (who has, several times, been nearly the only reporter besides me present onsite at Von Karman for a press briefing) asked that question, because I figured I’d worn out my welcome with such questions.


TBH, as I said earlier, I won’t hold my breath, but I will keep looking.By the time the low level photos are released, Elenin will have been to close approach and we will see if the EU theory advances any . . .

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